Giles started all six interviews with the same question to the candidates: why should it be you?
TT: This is one of those moments where we’ve really got to choose where we go as a party.
…And the choice is pretty clear: Do we want to go through factionalism and division? Do we want to fail to deliver? Do we want to promise that we’re going to lower migration and then see it go up, or lower taxes and then see them go up, or do we want to change? …and do we want to change and actually bring our party back together, rebuild trust …and be ready to win the next election?
I think it’s a very clear choice, and I think the way that we achieve that, the way we win the next election, is by changing the leadership: actually serving our party and our country, and acting in a way that brings people together.
Now, I’ve demonstrated that, as you know, on operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, where I’ve served our country, I’ve led in different ways, and the actions that we’ve had to take have been important to keeping us all safe. I’ve done it again in the Foreign Affairs Committee, standing against dictators like Russia and China and Iran…(which) got me sanctioned by all three. And, you know, I paid a price for it, but I think it’s the right thing to do.
And then again, in… as the Security Minister, where getting the National Security Act through was absolutely fundamental to changing the way we were able to protect Britain, and led to the… my ability to put that focus on our intelligence and security agencies, which meant that we were able to arrest in the two years that I was Security minister, more Chinese and Russian agents than in the previous decade.
Now, you know, serving our country, leading this great party, and acting in the national interest is, is what has always driven me, and I want to lead this great party because we have an extraordinary record of service to this country… all the way back from Peel and Disraeli through Baldwin and Churchill through to, of course, Macmillan and Thatcher… and having that record revitalised for this age is essential, and that’s why, you know, I’m a passionate believer in the sense of belonging that is core to conservatism… that patriotism and purpose, that really is conservatism.
That’s what I want to bring back to the party: that sense that we know who we are, that we’re proud of who we are as a country, as a party, and that we’re proud of our ability to lead.
But we also know that everyone in our country has a purpose. We’re not willing to do like the Socialists do: park people on benefits and ignore them. We know that everyone has a place, and that place is to be an active citizen, an active participant. That sense of purpose, that’s where, as conservatives, we tie together the energy and the imagination of the young with the experience and the… and the vision of the old. And that’s that’s really what conservatism is about for me, and that’s why I’m standing to lead, because this is an amazing country. It’s a fantastic party, and together, we can serve and lead better.
GD: This party you describe. Do you think it’s understood what’s just happened to it and why it happened?
Oh yes, oh yes, I do. I really do.
It’s really interesting, actually… I’ve spent the last three weeks, four weeks, going across the United Kingdom. I mean, Aberdeen, in Perth, and Sterling… Crikey. I can keep going…
GD: Just got back from Devon I believe…
TT: Just been in Devon. Tomorrow. I’m in Wiltshire. A few weeks ago, I was in the Isle of Wight in Norfolk and Suffolk in Lincolnshire, in Teesside. I mean, I can keep going …in north Wales.
GD: Don’t…
TT: (laughs) You know what I mean, I have been… I must have been to about 40 or 50 different constituency events. Some of them are things with other candidates. Some of them… most of them actually, just on my own… very often three or four, you know, tables of 10 people or something like that… And sometimes groups of 200… a real mix.
And I think what’s, what’s really clear to me is that Conservatives understand, you know… we know our country, right? We really know our country… because there’s one thing I can tell you about Conservative activists and members: They’re “doers”… They’re people who do things, right?
They’re people who organize the village fete… or organise, you know, the poppy appeal, or organize any number of different things, right? … by the very nature of the fact they’re Conservative, they’re people who champion our society, who understand their community and really live it in a very fundamental way.
And one of the things that really struck me at pretty much all of these events, frankly, is people do understand that what happened was a combination of, sort of… if you like… a sort of perfect storm of incidents that came together.
One is, you know, we promised to lower migration…we didn’t do it. I mean, it’s as simple as that.
We promised to lower taxes, and we didn’t do it, again it’s as simple as that…
…and we promised, you know, to bring competence into government, that Conservatives traditionally promise to do …and you know (you just have to look at the last few years to know) that we didn’t do it.
But they also they’re… you know… so many people are angry, not because they want us gone, but because they know what we could be… and we should be. And instead …instead of getting what they could and should… they’re getting what we are. And they know we can be better, and I know we can be better, and that’s why I’m standing to lead, because the truth is, we can be so much better.
We know that. You know that… everybody here knows that.
Because conservatism as its core is about service: it’s about serving the British people. It’s about offering that leadership, that political leadership that brings people together and acting in a way that is fundamentally in the interests of the British people. And that’s what we can get back to, and that’s why I’m standing to lead this great party.
GD: Do you think there is a problem with those people who thought of themselves as Conservatives… had always been, traditionally, Conservatives who just went, “You’ve stopped being Conservatives… so much… I’ve gone to another party”?
TT: So I think there’s a lot of people who did that. And they went…you’re right…they went to Reform.
They went to the Liberal Democrats. Actually, some went to the Greens… as you saw in Herefordshire and Norfolk. You know, many people who traditionally see themselves as Conservative chose to find another party to express that anger that’s certainly true, and chose against us. Even more, chose to stay away… the biggest section of Conservatives, as it were, from 2019, or from previous Conservative voters who went with us… they just, they just couldn’t bring themselves to vote.
And I think a lot of those people quite rightly, looked at the party and said, “You should be so much better than this. You really should.”
And that’s why it’s our responsibility: This is our watch. This is our mission. And our mission is pretty clear. Our mission is to be conservative again. Our mission is to bring back conservative values to this country. Our mission is to bring the Conservative family back together and demonstrate that we’re on the side of the British people: offering that service, that leadership role that this party truly has when it’s acting in the best interest of the country.
Now, we can do that, and I’m committed to doing that.
I’m committed to making sure that we stand up for the lower taxes that we promised. I mean, that’s why I voted, sorry… That’s why I didn’t support the National Insurance rise …as you remember a number of years ago… and you know…and standing up for liberty, frankly. We’ve just seen through Covid… that extraordinary intrusion in people’s lives, a very un-conservative moment, as we all know…. “national emergency” we understand… but still a very un-conservative moment…and that’s why I voted against the vaccine passports, because, you know, you’ve got to stand up for these things. You’ve got to be clear where it matters and stand up for those conservative values in different ways across our country.
We need to be clear where that change is needed.
GD: The party will probably need to change …perhaps its functions… perhaps its structures. How might it change under your leadership?
TT: That’s a really good question. It will.
Sorry.
Let me start that differently:
It will definitely need to change. It’s not perhaps… it definitely needs to change
… and that’s why, as you know, I’ve asked people for their thoughts, and I’ve got a survey up on my website, and I’d be grateful for any thoughts, and in fact, I’ll make this announcement now: If you would like it…
I will very happily share the results with ConHome, so that your readers can see what other people are saying, because… I think this needs to be an open conversation.
One of the things that’s really struck me, and I’ve been speaking to the party in Wales, party in Scotland, the party in London, and many different areas, one of the things that struck me: is a lot of people have different ideas for what they want, and some people want an elected chairman, and some people want regionalisation, and some people want…any number of different things.
And this is where I want to have a proper conversation, because, you know, I’m a Unionist. I am fundamentally a Unionist. It is absolutely, for me…it’s completely indivisible from conservatism. And what I want to do is I want to make sure that we rebuild the Conservative Party in a way that works across the United Kingdom.
Now that doesn’t mean that it should be the same everywhere, but it does mean that we understand where the differences are: so that the party Board actually takes into account the views of different areas.
So for example, you know, at the moment, the Scottish party has a very separate status to the party in England and Wales. Is that the right status to have in England and Wales? Should we look at adjusting that …now the Scottish party itself is having a debate about its own status…once it’s made up its mind: How should we work together? That’s a conversation we then need to have together.
So, I’m cautious about giving a single answer now as to what it should become, for the very obvious reason that this is a conversation we need to have together, but the fundamental need to come down to values. And conservative values are eternal. They’re about belonging, of course, but they’re also about understanding where power comes from.
Power comes from the ground up, not the top down. And I’m afraid, as a party, I think we can safely say we’ve forgotten that.
We’ve imposed candidates at short notice. We’ve gerrymandered. We’ve played the game. We played the system, sorry… it hasn’t been right. We need to remember who’s in charge here. The membership are not just there to get an email every few days asking for another 20 quid. That’s not what membership is about. Membership is about helping to shape a conservative future…
… because, let’s be clear, what is the mission? What’s the purpose of the Conservative Party? It only has one purpose. It is to support conservative voices across the United Kingdom. If you’re going to support conservative voices across the United Kingdom, that means getting outside Westminster.
There’s only 121, of us. You simply cannot achieve that from Westminster. You need to make absolutely certain you’re using councillors… members of the Scottish Parliament… members of the Welsh Senedd, and many other activists… Metro mayors, not just Ben Houchen, who everybody talks about, but Jason Perry, of course, in Croydon as well, who sadly seems very often forgotten as a Conservative mayor in this country… I don’t know why, but he is a Conservative mayor in this country… and making sure that we have these voices playing their part as well, and making sure that CCHQ is offering the same support as they’d offer a Member of Parliament, whether that’s social media or whatever it happens (to be)
GD: you’re talking about a lot about values and addressing that… what is it to be a Conservative and the need for the party to do a bit of thinking about that? Because, quite frankly, there are people who’re still members of our party who think we’ve stopped doing that…having said that, you talked very early on about a specific policy… you mentioned, you know, we need to look at the ECHR? The fact is that we’re not going to get to address anything in government for five years… at least. Is there a danger of backing, choosing, or talking about, certain policies at this stage?
TT: Look, there absolutely is …what I was saying is there are a range of policies on which we broadly agree, and that this is an odd election in the sense that every single one of the candidates standing are “good Conservatives”… Now, you know, I can run through, and you know this is true because you’ve seen us together: James is a really close friend of mine. Kemi is a really close friend of mine. Rob is a very close friend of mine. Mel, I’ve worked with incredibly closely and Priti is a very close friend of mine.
So we’re not choosing in the way that we’d normally choose an election where, you know, there’s a Socialist and there’s a Conservative. Look, we’re all Conservatives. This is really a question not just of policies. This is a question of, how do you champion the values that bring us together? How do you reunite the party… which has been frankly riven by factionalism for far too long. How do you make sure you champion all those views that bring us together? How do you actually serve the Conservative Party in a way that offers leadership and action that delivers the result that we need?
Now that’s that’s what we’re looking for… because we’re not just looking for a manager, right? We’re not looking for a manager to reform the Conservative Party. We’re not looking for a hired hand and we bring in and say, right: “Reorganize the conservative party like a business manager”
No.
And we’re not just looking for a spokesman against Keir Starmer in Westminster, or even, actually just, or even a spokesman who can go up against, you know… I was going to say John Swinney, but who the hell knows who it’s going to be next week, right, because they keep changing as well.
You know, we’re going to see…. we need to make sure we’ve got somebody who can actually offer leadership to this party… offer leadership against Keir Starmer… and offer leadership in four years time, because we can’t be swapping leaders every two years. You know, we simply cannot afford to do that.
And I tell you what? This Labour Party has already demonstrated, the kind of government it is… Seven weeks in….we know what the next four years are going to look like: self-serving, you know, leading nowhere, acting only in its own interests, paying off its union paymasters and forgetting the British people. We know that’s where it’s going.
We need to be absolutely ready, because it would be… it would be letting the country down if we’re not…we’re not ready for government in four years time, and that’s why we’ve got to reunite. We’ve got to rebuild trust. We’ve got to really think hard around those conservative values about the policies that we need to deliver.
GD: Are you ready? There is a level of intrusion that comes with this job. Partly, some…some in the party just want to feel like they know you and they’re your friend. But out in the country, in the media, there’s always like, if you’re going to take this position, then “we have a right to know things” that you might think, “Actually, I’m not sure you do” What do we know about you? What do you want the party to know about you that isn’t about leadership and …and policy and values?
TT: Giles, look, you know, you you were a journalist. You’ve been a journalist for many years.
And I was a journalist whenever it was ….2001, years ago, before I was in the army… I was a journalist. And when you’re seeking to exercise power or influence over other people’s lives: they have a right to know, quite rightly, where you’re coming from, what values drive you, whether or not you’re being straight with them, frankly. And I think that’s entirely right. And so you know, what do you want to know about me?
Well, before politics… I came into politics late, as you know…before that, I was a soldier. I was in the Army Reserve, and I served on operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. On and off, over seven or eight years, I served with the Foreign Office in different ways as well. And before that, I set up a small business for a bit… which was tough, I’ve got to tell you… and before that, I was a journalist. So I’ve done a range of a range of things.
I’m now lucky enough to be married to an amazing woman …who is significantly more impressive than I am….as you know very well, she’s much, much cleverer than me and and I’ve got two children who are absolutely fantastic ….and who I am …well, like any father…deeply, deeply love them.
GD: What does Tom do to relax?
I mostly get bounced on by children or play archery… My son…
GD: Actually I do know that’s true.
TT: Yes, you do. (laughs)
And as you know, my son has decided that he’s a Viking… I’m not saying that there’s a direct inspiration from your family (Giles Dilnot is married to a Norwegian) but… but there is, there is a connection and and he’s currently in the process of learning how his…. and I use the term, advisedly… double-headed, bearded axe… (this is a specific kind of axe) is it’s quite difficult to get through the security at Gatwick when he’s going to go and see his grandfather, but we manage because…thank God it’s made of plastic! (laughs)
GD: You mentioned that you’re friends with the competitors in this…
TT: They’re good people. They’re genuinely good people.
GD:..And there is a question, I think, here, that is: It’s very important who the winner is. It’s also very important what the losers do next.
TT: Yeah, yeah, this is a team, right?
And let me be quite clear. You know, as leader of the Conservative Party, I would want all of their talents, and they have many, many talents, to be brought together around the table, so that we are championing conservative values in our own distinct ways. It’s certainly true that Kemi and I have different ways of expressing each ideas, and James and I have different ways of expressing ideas, and Rob and I do and so on….
Of course, that’s true, and the way in which we express those views doesn’t mean we don’t share values. We absolutely DO share values, but we’ve all got to stand on our record. We’ve all got a champion and use the language that works for our record and our circumstances, and we’ve all all got to explain the Conservative vision for the future that we share… now that’s …bringing that talent around the table is the job of a leader, and that’s why, as leader of the Conservative Party, I would be very clear in setting the mission.
The mission is, obviously, it’s to win the next general election, but more importantly is to champion conservative values across the United Kingdom. That means making sure we win the county elections in ’25…We win in Scotland and Wales in ’26… and we win in Districts and Boroughs across the UK between now and then.
Now we’ve got… we’ve got some Mayoral elections coming up in Cambridgeshire and Peterborough. We’ve got, you know, we’ll have other elections coming up in other times. We need to make sure that we’ve got conservative voices out there. And that’s about bringing the team together, the team of other candidates who are standing for the leadership… of course, the team of the other 100 and that that makes… 116 MPs who are standing, 115 MPs, sorry, that have been elected to Parliament, but also the Council leaders, who’ve got such an important voice, you know,…making sure we’re bringing the best voices in the country around the table for political cabinet, so we’re actually representing the country and sharing conservative views.
GD: So you’d have them in …I’m just asking, to be very clear, if it isn’t you, you’re happy to still do these things and work towards what you’ve just described
TT: Giles, 25 years ago, I promised our late Queen that I would serve the country, and I would serve her in the best way I could. I have not broken that promise and I intend to keep that promise…and if serving our country best under the leadership of whoever leads the Conservative party is to serve in the Shadow Cabinet…I will serve.
GD: Tom thanks very much for speaking to ConservativeHome.